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W.E.B. DaBoy! NaClKnight
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Every so often i remember how much fun Hakumen was to play and then i remember the top 40% of the #BlazBlue Tierlist and then i go play anything else

I may hate Akuma and Rashid fr fr, but i'd need a new word to describe my feelings towards Kokonoe Relius, Izanami, and Izayoi

Pixel
Public

@NaClKnight straight up a big realization i've had in a handful of fighting games i've played is that, no matter how much i love the characters i might play, if i hate more matchups than i don't it's probably not worth the grief. There's a lot of fighting games where characters are seldom fun to fight and it sucks coming to that realization

Pixel
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@NaClKnight I had a really strong smash ultimate scene and i had a big come to jesus moment a while into my time with that game where, even in spite of all the support i had in my general orbit and the great people i shared that time with, I realized there was no amount of that that would offset how much i hated playing into Rob, or Olimar, or Game and Watch, or what have you.

Like there's still a lot about the game that is good but i'd rather find things i actively enjoy more, yknow. it's not an easy conversation to have but it's one im glad i did

W.E.B. DaBoy! NaClKnight
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@pixel Amen. I ditched Ultimate 5 years ago(i think?) for similar reasons but different characters. i couldn't find joy playing as Fox or Ike against that roster

Pixel
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@NaClKnight I maintain that if ultimate was just me playing joker against nobody else the entire time it'd be a phenomenal video game but when you ask me to sit opposite a pacman i'm moving to the countryside

W.E.B. DaBoy! NaClKnight
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@pixel With all respect, the preponderance of characters like Joker was one of the reasons i dropped the game.

I like Street Fighter and Tekken and KoF, but i don't actually play Ken, Ryu, Kaz, or Terry in their respective titles

I don't like KH or any Fire Emblem after Ike's, or Persona, or FF7, Dragon Quest, or Minecraft, so like... the DLC characters felt very "I'm happy for y'all but none of these excite me personally" and it was very easy to let the game go.

W.E.B. DaBoy! NaClKnight
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@pixel Ok, that's an interesting take. I have some ideas from other games, but can i assume Steve, G&W, and Pac all do that in Smash? How so?

Are there any examples from other games?

Blazblue for example feels like a game with thin enough system mechanics and wild enough character mechanics, even in the first game, that it's hard to sayv which characters break the game

@NaClKnight they fundimentally restructure how neutral interactions work in a way where matchups are determined by how your character aligns with their character and not how both of your characters interact with the underlying systems. Exacerbated by the fact that ultimate's input lag forces the game into relying more on reads than reactive play, Project M 3.5 was like this as well, if you didn't have tools to interact with a character with sheik's ground speed and also a broken throw game (donkey kong) you were fighting an uphill battle. it's a bigger issue in modern nintendo-made platform fighters, though. Characters are designed to do Their Thing, and not to interact with game systems.